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If you need to ask, then you simply haven't been paying attention to the world of yacht design for the last twenty years or so. Robert Perry is one of the handful of designers who have been hugely successful by occupying, indeed, dominating a niche in the design world. Like Bruce Farr is in the racing world, Bob Perry is often thought of as the king of cruisers. But it would be foolish to stop there. When he has drawn performance boats, they've been very fast for their intended purpose. And his latest effort, the 65' ICON, is by all accounts, an extremely fast and comfortable racer/cruiser. Bob has, in a lapse of judgment, decided to not only become a frequent contributor to our forum, but also agreed to do this InnerView. Jeez, maybe he's not so smart...........
BP: The Sydney-Hobart was never my idea although I was overjoyed with the results. I was hesitant to see my light air flyer being put through that heavy air test. They did not have time to put on the heavier bulb we had designed specifically for this race. The new bulb sat on the dock.
All of Icon's engineering was done by High Modulus in NZ and construction was done by Marten Yachts. I was lucky to have such a high powered and competent team involved. The crew at Marten Marine were great. I was put in charge of barbequing the two whole lambs at the launching party. Design wise it was fairly simple. I drew a hull that was light, quite narrow and geared to Puget Sound's fluky conditions. D/L is 68. The rig is huge and the keel retracts going from 8'6" to 13'8". It's just a big dinghy like hull form, very fine forward. The stern's a bit wide but I had a lot of things to squeeze into the cockpit while maintaining some volume for the interior layout, i.e. two wheels, two coffee grinders, mainsheet system, a racing crew plus some cruising considerations like back rests. The two grinders needed some specific ergonomic considerations and they worked out great. The boat is very high powered with a huge roach on the mainsail. SA/D is 33.25 using just I, J, E and P. The main overlaps the backstay by 48"! We just use non overlapping jibs but we have all the horsepower you could ever want. The boat is exceedingly close winded. Entering the Harbor at Aukland I fell off and we eased sheets as I rounded the buoy and rum lined it for the barn then looked down and saw that I was still sailing with an apparent wind angle of 28 degrees. The feel on the wheel is delicious and always two fingers. 15 knots is effortless to the point where it is commonplace and not worth mentioning. The interior has everything a cruiser would want: huge galley, lots of lockers, scuba gear storage, large dinette two staterooms with double berths, two heads, large nav station and it's all detailed in carbon fiber and gray leather for a very techno look. Anchor chain and windlass are just forward of the mast. It's also a good looking boat. Dick, the owner, insisted on conventional aesthetics. He also owns the old S&S boat CHARISMA so he is well steeped in traditional yachting beauty. He wanted a sheer with some spring and that suited me fine. The bow is also a wee bit more shapely than currently common. It's a strong look. I'm proud of this design.
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BP: I'm not sure I can get behind the mind set that would make someone pay a pro to run their boat. I've always approached racing as a test of my skills and not my bank account. Money and sport, it seems an epidemic these days. If I win the race I like to know the win belongs to me and my crew and not to a hired gun who will be on the competitor's boat next weekend.
BP: I have a visceral dislike to the vast, overblown hype that surrounds all J boats. But I do like many of their designs. Their cruising boats in particular appeal to me. I think the term "sport boat" has outlived it's usefulness. To me it means a boat that is overpowered and uncomfortable. We seem to move towards these extremes in design while leaving sensible proportions behind. Nobody likes to sail on their ear and these high powered boats actually frighten some sailors. If it's a "family" boat it has to have a pretty forgiving nature and that makes it dull and boring for many racers. The top end of performance has been pushed so far up the scale (ICON?) that "moderate" is now seen as too sedate. We just drew a 32'er for a Seattle client. We call it the "Geezer Boat". It just so happened that this client owned a brand new rig for a PC. The old wooden PC was falling apart. He didn't want to shit-can the rig and new sails so we just designed a new hull to go under it. The hull is totally modern in proportions and shape elements but by today's standards the rig will be seen as small. But, the good news is that old farts can sail this boat without hurting themselves. He did not want a Melges 24. He doesn't want to hike.
BP: When Bruce Anderson approached me to design STEALTH CHICKEN my first question was "Why me?" He said I think you can do it. I told him I knew I could do it. I was just surprised that someone finally asked. I had done some good IOR boats when I first started but nothing since for racing. Actually I think Bruce chose me, as the designer because he thought my name on the drawings would get him a better PHRF rating! He had me put "Cruising Cutter" on all the drawing's title blocks. Bruce sold the "CHICKEN" eight years after he had it built. He sold it for almost exactly what he paid for it. I think this speaks well for the particular combination of speed and comfort that I think I am good at. Chicken's value was durable. I don't think it's reasonable for a potential client to think I can go head to head with the Farr office. They have numbers on their side and a track record that I can't approach. But, I can draw fast boats and with the right team behind me I think I can compete with any other design office. It just takes a client like Icon's Dick Robbins to have the faith that I can produce a good, fast boat. I don't feel tremendously "unfulfilled" because I don't design more racing boats. Maybe a little. Cruising boats can be even harder to design. Racers generally know what they are doing. I would however like to design racing boats from time to time just to have the chance to hone my own design skills and get some objective feedback for a change. Designing racing boats keeps me current and allows me to pass on the design lessons to my cruising clients. Besides I have an associate Ben Souquet and he is young, about seven years out of school. I know for sure that he wants to do more racing boats. I want to keep Ben happy.
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BP: There are too many designers today doing "me too" boats. You can't tell one from the other. There are also those designers who seem to keep their heads in the sand without regards to advancements in yacht design. I mean, if you want a full keeled boat just say "I like full keeled boats" (we are doing an 85'er now) Just don't try and tell me that full keels are required to make a healthy offshore cruising boat. I can remember being attacked by several designers when the Valiant 40 was introduced. They thought it was too radical to be a true offshore cruising boat. Times change. I have a personal dislike for some boats.
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BP: If you are asking me what I think a cruising boat should be there are as many answers as there are clients. It's a matter of personal sailing style. It's my job to match the boat with the owner's approach to life on the water. I'm not going to tell you that a light boat is better than a heavy boat or vice versa. That all depends upon how you like to sail.
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BP: Of course after reading the "Leifing" thread I was totally won over. Having grown up in Sydney Australia, I admire straight talk. But I'd like to see the blue language toned down a wee bit. My dear old Dad used to tell me that swearing was the mark of an inadequate vocabulary. But, from time to time I'm as guilty as the next man. I was initially reluctant to contribute to SA because I do feel a little more "vulnerable" than maybe some of you. My wife said "You're not using your real name this time are you?" I do take what I do very seriously. Sailing is not my hobby, it's not my passion. Yacht design is my life. I have other hobbies to keep me sane. I'm my own worst critic but if I catch criticism from someone who I don't feel is qualified to pass judgment on my work I'm like a cornered mother lion. But, I did sense that with SAILING ANARCHY I was dealing with sailors I could relate to, for the main.
BP: Of course I like the new boats but once again they are sure getting to look alike. I miss the old days when we had some real pigs on the starting line. It was fun to watch design variety at work. It was educational for young designer. But, unlike baseball or football there is no team feeling to these nationally homogenous crews. They just don't have a cohesive identity beyond the name of the boat itself. I usually root for the Italians because they have the best paint jobs and the best music. I don't have the time nor inclination to study the legal wars that seem to envelope the efforts. I laugh at people's efforts to smear Laurie Davidson. I know Laurie. He stops into my office from time to time. He's way above all that bullshit. I'll watch the races starting with the Louis Vuitton Cup and I'll enjoy them. I'd like more wind this year please and less cancelled races.
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BP: Personally I like measurement handicap rules. They are fun for the designer and yes I do recognize the stress they put on owners.
BP: I tell my clients "We are not looking for sensible shoes, let's have some fun with this." 25 years ago I designed Doug Fryer's NIGHT RUNNER. It has the look of an old cutter but it is fast enough to win races, lots of races around here. Sure it has a reasonable handicap but the boat is also fast enough to make it fun to sail aggressively. NIGHT RUNNER has also been around Cape Horn. I think NIGHT RUNNER is one of my all time favorite designs. It's a fingertip delight to sail.
BP: The Clutes have been sailing their 59' STARBUCK for about 5 years now. Bill and Heather came from a racing background and wanted a boat that was exciting to sail and fast. I think putting this boat together with Dennis Choate was one of the highlights of my career so far. Then I did a similar boat with Dennis for Denny Howarth. Denny's FOXFIRE was a bit beamier than STARBUCK but no heavier and it had a frac rig. Denny also comes from a racing background. These sailors know the difference and that means everything to me. When they say the boat is good , I know we are speaking the same language. Unfortunately I have to deal with some cruising sailors who haven't moved their traveler in years and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did move it. I'm happy to design heavy if you want it. My 50'er "YONI" weighs 50,000 lbs, and has 20,000 lbs. of ballast. It's a beauty, tough as nails and stiff as a church. It's a dream to sail. Offshore, on the wind, in 40 knots, true, ONI might be the world's best ride for a 50'er. There are a lot of different flavors to be explored. Each has it's own set of beneficial attributes.
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BP: We are also finishing the 32' GEEZER BOAT. We are doing a 48'er for SAGA in Canada. It will be our third design for them. We are doing a 56' double ender. This is the most fun design I have done for a long time. I'm not going to try and justify the double ended configuration. I'll only say that it is what the owner wanted and that was good enough for me. I find myself unusually excited about this boat. It's the first double ender I have drawn in almost 20 years and it seems to be getting my juices flowing. We have an 85' aluminum boat going for a Canadian couple to be built in NZ at Fitzroy's yard. This has been a fascinating project because the owner is a commercial fisherman and he really knows boats. This is not your typical big luxury yacht. Below the surface there is a lot of pragmatic thought at work in this design. This client is his own skipper and that makes a huge difference. There are only two of us here so that's enough work for now.
BP: Saga is doing well and we are doing their new 48'er. Ta Yang or Tayana still produces my 52 and my 48 but I don't see any new Perry boats for them on the horizon. I don't think Valiant will tool any new boats, they continue to sell V-42's and 50's at an impressive rate. But if they did I'd be shocked if it was not my design. I dream of the Perry/Swan but it's not likely. I'll bet they would sell more boats if they built one of my cruising boats. I'm always open to talking design with any production builder.
BP: PHRF, well, the whining will continue that's for sure. If you can stand in front of the rating committee and actually cry while you whine you have a far better chance of getting your rating lowered. Better yet, have your wife cry. That always works. I really don't understand PHRF. It seems to me that in many cases the raters are so insecure about their ability to rate and understand boats correctly that they avoid any expert advice. I have been called several times by raters in various areas for help with ratings but in Seattle they never call me. They didn't like Jesus in Nazareth. I recently helped a client prepare a case for having is rating lowered ( a Frers IOR 50'er). I put a lot of effort into this. He is clearly getting hammered with his current rating. The committee voted not to change the rating at all. Zip. The reason was that tired old PHRF excuse "It will have snowball effect and we'll have to adjust too many other ratings." It bothers me. I can't wait to see what happens to ICON in the hands of our local mavens. I'm nervous. I need to stress the lineage with the Baba 30. I think in a perfect world PHRF would be the perfect rule.
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