Rohan Veal
 
While it is interesting to find out generally
where and how you started in sailing, the big question on everyone’s mind is
how it all conspired against you and made you the face
of the moth class and a trekker in the forest of foiled sailing craft
technology? In
other words, how did you end up where you are today?
RV
When I was a kid, I looked up to the moth sailors
like Andrew Landenberger (AUS) and wanted to be like them racing
around these tiny skiffs tearing up the course. I didn’t really
like sailing with anyone else as well but liked to go fast,
so when I finished University, I had some money and my
weekends back, and went out to buy my first 1980’s
skiff moth for a few hundred dollars. I broke everything
on the boat and was very slow, but I just loved the fact
that I owned a Moth and can go sailing whenever I want.
From then on I just wanted to go faster and faster. In
Januray 2003 I won my first national Championship and decided
to get a new Fastacraft narrow skiff with custom built
hydrofoils. This was first production foiler ever built and took this
boat to the 2003 France Worlds where I not only got 3rd, but also a
significant amount of publicity surrounding this boat flying boat and
a top 3 result in a world championships.
Along the same theme, our pal Skiffboy is
wondering what your motivation was - the challenge of a development
class breaking new ground in technology, and so finding out what was
possible with an 11' boat; the challenge of physically sailing one
of these boats, so finding out what he was humanly capable of; or something
else? Perhaps
you were booted from flight school and wanted to prove
the fuckers wrong?
RV
yeah, that’s it, I got
shafted from pilot’s school… nah,
I just like to go fast, but there was a bonus of trying
new things and seeing what happened. The International Moth is the
perfect boat for development. I think that with the combination of
John Ilett (Fastacraft), Andrew McDougall (KA Sail) and I, we leapt
sailing forward about 10 years in about 24 months. I have also always
been involved in other competitive sport as well (ie triathlons, waterpolo,
swimming, rock climbing, etc) and so the physical skill required to
do well in Moth’s
to me was quite easy and I seemed to have a good mix of
skills to master the class.
Can you fly anything besides the moth?
RV
yep, I flew a kite once when I was kid but that was boring.
What is your background in technology and engineering?
RV
I studied aeronautics a bit high school, then did part of a civil
engineering degree (but this was boring too) and have been
working in IT (web development) for the last 6 years. I love new technology.
I always know what I want, but I think my wants are always
a few years ahead of current supplies.
Is the moth class today a field of technological warfare or does
the best sailor win?
RV
It has settled
down a bit now, but most regattas I have been to over the
last 6 years, there have always been a few radical designs, but they
never win. It is always the best sailor, with good fitness and skills
using non radical equipment that brings home the bacon.
It would be helpful to historians of the various
classes as well as the leaders to understand as to how
the foil debate was resolved and, more importantly, who
in that debate was right? The
view from the outside is that the class has gained appeal by making
the foils successful. Do you agree?
RV
Most moth
sailors embrace new technology and designs at big events,
however I was not welcomed with such enthusiasm when I started foiling.
I think that I was seen as a threat to the top guys and the possibility
that it would increase the costs of the boats, and therefore reduce
the International Moth Class Association membership (and yet IMCA membership
had been gradually reducing in numbers for years before
I got involved with the class). Yes I was a threat, yes the costs went
a bit (5-10%) but the best way that the early ‘foiler’ Mothies
found to convince ‘low-riding’ mothies that foiling is
shit, is that we gave them all a go on our boats. As a
result most ‘skiffs’ have
converted to foilers, or intend to convert to a foiler,
not to mention that there is also enormous interest from
not only new sailors, but old mothies as well to get back into the
class. Consequently IMCA membership is now on the way up. Enough said!
Dave S wonders that, by developing the foiling
moth and helping make it accessible, you obviously changed the class
pretty radically? Do you feel that's made him unpopular with some members
of the class? And
we ask you, do you care?
RV
as mentioned
above, I was not liked by a few of the more ‘top-end’ mothies,
but I didn’t care, as I knew
it was the right and only thing IMCA could do to survive
and to also give sailing a sport a kick up the arse as I can’t
believe the lack of media attention sailing gets in Australia or other
countries around the globe. However most yachtie’s outside the
Moth class seemed to like the idea of foiler Moths. Those that didn’t
are usually fairly traditional or one-design type sailors.
How big will the foils have to be to sustain a 240 lbs moth junkie?
RV
how much is 240lbs? we use metric over here… basically
you can be as light as 50kgs, as heavy as 90kgs (ideal is about
70kgs) with a 8m sail and two foils around 1m in width.
The lighter you are, the lower the wind speed you will fly. The heavier
you are, the faster you can sail off the breeze when the wind picks
up.
Who has been involved and in what roles in the developments of
your boats?
RV
To make things interesting,
I’ll use Star Wars to give you
an analogy on this one (don’t take it too seriously tho)…
- John Ilett (Fastacraft) is Obi-wan
Kenobi – a
mothie from the 1990’s residing in the far away
land of Perth, Western Australia. John came up with the
bi-foiler concept with the wand on the bow (the ‘light
saber’) and I was immediately embraced by the ‘Force’.
- Andrew ‘Amac’ McDougall (KA Sail) is Yoda – a
champion mothie from the 1980’s who is wise, wired and ears
that stick out from his head. I remember in 2001 when he was telling
me that I had the talent to win a Moth worlds and he said ‘help
you I will…yes’. Andrew developed his KA Moth sails
with me over a few years and is now the biggest producer
of Moth sails in the world.
- Bryn Wellington (Ronstan) is Han Solo – he
commands a great ship with lots of toys that I can play with.
- The pro-hydrofoil enthusiasts are all C3P0’s – as they
are always giving me too much information, numbers and data that
I don’t really listen to.
- I suppose I am Luke Skywalker – the young rookie who was
shown the ‘Force’ by Yoda and Obi-wan who went
on to beat the ‘dark side of the Force’ in the 2005 Worlds,
ie the near one-design ‘sea-hugging’ skiffs lead by the
Worlds best at the time…
- Les Thorpe (aka – Darth Vader) – my arch rival in the
black boat of course.
(remember don’t take this too seriously and I no I am not a
big Star Wars geek)
What's the next improvement? foil shape (2d, 3d?) control system
improvements? Drag reduction? Sailability?
RV
Amac has designed a new foiler moth package called
the Bladerider, that is using brand new foil designs to reduce drag,
smaller hull volume to reduce windage & air freight costs, swept
back wings to look sexy and new control mechanisms to make
the boat lift out of the water a lot easier. All this is
yet to be proven, but the first concept boat built looks quite good.
I suppose we might do some more work on the rig, but the current rig
we have is pretty effective and efficient in all conditions.
What is the strangest foil shape you have tried that actually
worked?
RV
Nothing too ‘strange’, but I had a go on Brett Burvill’s
(Windrush) surface piercing foiler Moth (see attached photo),
which has two foils off the side of the wing frame, that as the boat
lifts clear of the water, the wetter surface area is reduced, therefore
making the boat faster. We had this boat going pretty quick one time,
but it is quite strange to sail as it can be very stable sometimes,
but if you heal the boat over to far, it tips itself over.
What is the strangest foil shape you have tried that failed?
RV
I havn’t tried it myself, but a few of the guys in the fleet
have tried ‘ladder foils’ and ‘diamond foils’.
The idea is good, but they just never worked as good as the bi-foiler
arrangement (ie two fully submerge t-foils) that John Ilett perfected.
Have you experimented with dual eliptical centerboards (one for
each tack)?
RV
nah, too much stuffing
around. You don’t have time to think
about changing foils for each tack. We have to optimize
the boats for all winds and all conditions, and therefore
it is better to make minimal adjustments on the water apart from what
is in your hands, ie tiller, rudder flap, mainsheet and other control
lines (when required).
Does you believe the current foil set up is faster or slower than
the original tricycles that were outlawed?
RV
Off the breeze in say +15 knots, I reakon the
tri-foiler was the quickest during its time. No one has used the configuration
in a while, but from my ‘short’ time using them, it was
bloody fast downwind. However saying that, we are now sailing
bi-foilers quite fast downwind. I clocked 27.9 knots that
other month in about 20 knots of wind. Without a doubt though, the
tri-foiler Moths are not as quick upwind as they do not produce enough
lift.
What portions of the current moth rule you
see as restrictive to speed around the course. Given a clean slate,
no rules and staying in the same general size where would you look
for more speed. What
compromises have been necessary to keep the boat within
class rules? Would
your ideal foiler be longer? Wider? Different rig?
RV
Good question…
Within the current class rules, maybe a solid wing sail
as this would be faster in certain conditions, but I would
doubt the ability for it to be as versatile as the pocket luff sails
we currently use. Maybe adjustable/swept-back foils for high speed
as well? Smaller hull volume (as I think I could race on no hull,
just a small platform to support the rig and foils as it is possible
to not touch the water in a whole races in good conditions).
Outside of the class rules - I think I would like more sail area to
go quicker in light winds, maybe a code zero for downwind (I think
this is possible too) in light airs as well. Electronic foil adjustment
would be nice but heavy.
How susceptible is your boat to increase in weight - i.e. does
you have to continually maintain the weight to maintain
the boat speed?
RV
I assume you mean body weight, but a few kilos
of body weight does not make much difference. I try to
minimize weight on the boat though as much as possible,
this means cutting down steel fittings, using non-water-absorbing
rope, carbon everything, and the next boat I don’t think I will bother with
a paint job (saving 500 grams)… I
seem to accumulate a lot of sponsor stickers on my boat,
and these add to weight, so that means something else has
to go, ie paint.
Your countryman, “I come from a land down under”,
ponders that, since you don’t have to concentrate on weaving
the boat over, around and through the waves, what the hell
do you do while out there - compose music? Is there a surfing
effect on the foils in small waves? Did you ever wish at speed
that you had a completely flat sail without any camber?
RV
If the
water is dead flat, it is pretty easy to sail a foiler
moth around a course in moderate conditions, but it is
still physical, ie hiking hard, main sheet trim and body weight positioning
is all critical. Once the waves get up a bit, upwind is still fast,
but you have to concentrate a lot. Downwind in the waves is where it
gets tricky. Sometimes you have to slow the boat down or put it on
the water at times to play it safe, otherwise you could find your boat
trying to launch into orbit if running into the back of a wave. I like
these conditions best, as it is a lot more challenging. A completely
flat sail is not always good. Maybe in +20 knots, but we don’t
sail in these conditions that often. We need one sail to
suit all conditions. There is no surfing effect on the
foils in small waves though, as we just go straight over them doing
+20 knots.
How did you land the sponsorships and what
program did you present to your sponsors to achieve that?
RV
Good question as well… I made a deal with Amac in 2001
that he would make me fast sails and help me win the worlds
and in return I would look after his web site for KA Sail. Not long
after winning my first National Title on a second hand boat, I approached
Ronstan and said that I want to get a brand new boat with
hydrofoils, but only if you guys sponsor me the fittings and equipment.
I don’t
know why, but they said yes over the phone almost straight
away. Ronstan not only get great signage on my boat as
a main sponsor, but they make me feel part of their family, so it is
a great relationship we have going. The other boat/equipment sponsors
all happened after I got a bit of publicity after the 2003 worlds on
my new foiler and with the help of my personal web site which I regularly
update with any crap I can think of or find. So I was getting a few
offers here and there, mainly discounts and free product, but now it
seems I am getting better offers more often, even from competitors
to my current sponsors. It is good to know that you are wanted, but
we have built up a good team at the moment. I think the way I approach
my campaign, and the professional attitude I take to everything shows
that I am serious about what I say. Money is very hard to come by for
non-olympic dinghy sailing in Australia, but the Victorian Institute
of Sport and Yachting Australia help cover my expenses for overseas
competition in return for coaching junior sailors. So there is a win-win
with each sponsor, and it is not just a matter of giving me money and
putting a sticker on the sail. A winning formula is much more than
that and I think if anyone is looking for sponsorship for the first
time, the deal must be better for the sponsor than for the sailor.
Once you can prove trust and dedication, you can then ask for more.
Why do you heel the moth to windward
when up on foils? Does
the wand make it different from tack to tack?
RV
Mothies call that the ‘Veal-heal’ as
I figured out that when sailing upwind, you could sail higher and faster
by pulling the boat over on top of you. This happens for several reasons,
you can gain lift of the foils to windward, you can gain lift off the
rig, and you can use the weight of the rig and hull as counter ballast
meaning you can power up the rig more. The wand does change lift on
the centerboard slightly on different tacks, but it is negligible.
Some have tried a wand in the mid line off the bow, but it disturbs
the water over the mail foil and can cause cavitation.
How much time did you spend sailing before you started foiling,
how much time were you spending sailing while developing
the concept, and how much time do you dedicate to on-water sailing
now?
RV
I started sailing when I was 9 sailing Sabot’s and 420’s
until 18. Like most youth’s, I got bored and had other commitments
with Universtiy, work, girls, etc. I was sailing quite
a lot as a kid (ie every weekend most of the year). In my first years
of Moth sailing, I sailed as often as possible, maybe 20-40 days a
year. When I got my first foiler, I was sailing up to 100 days a year,
especially leading up to the 2005 worlds in Melbourne as a lot of the
time was spent on techniques, speed, sail design and foil control mechanisms.
I havn’t
done so much over the last 10 months due to work commitments,
but the next 12 months I intend to sail quite a lot leading up to the
2006 Worlds at Lake Garda, Italy. I love sailing a foiler Moth but
I don’t
think I could race for fun. I prefer to be out in front.
Are there any foiling ideas you have that you have not had tried
in practice?
RV
Most can master a foiling gybe downwind, but I
have been working on a ‘Gack’ which is a 270 degree gybe-upwind instead of
tacking in light airs. If you tack in light airs, you run the risk
of not having enough wind to get back on the foils or loosing a lot
of ground to windward to get on the foils. Therefore I tried it in
a race one day and it worked. I have since been practicing these as
to minimize losing ground to windward and can now do a ‘gack’ within
a 3m area. The next one to try is a foiling tack, ie not
touching the water at all. It might take some time to perfect,
but a few of us have done them on occassions. One other idea I thought
of was having independent flaps on the port and starboard
side (like a plane) as so you can use the flaps to control stability
and yaw.
Are you going to sail some C-class cats with the down
under crew?
RV
Not that I know of, but I would like to have a
go on a foiling C class like your ‘Patient Lady’.
How good is the Velocitek gizmo you have been using? If it has
made you a better / faster sailor is there hope for the
rest of us?
RV
It is bloody unreal! I was just using the speed
to chase top speeds initially, but the current model (S5)
has built in VMG and I use it all the time in Moth racing
as VMG is quite important upwind, downwind and in marginal foiling
conditions. It won’t
tell how to sail the boat faster, but it will tell you
if you are going in the right direction.
Are there still gains to be made in the actual sailing technique?
RV
yeah, downwind technique is critical to win races these days.
Upwind is just as important, but a lot of gain can be made quickly
if you sail well downwind. This includes sailing as low, fast and as
safe as possible off the breeze.
Are you really going for the world speed record on a 29ft foiler?
RV
That is the plan. I really envy anyone who has
a crack at speed records (land, sea or air), so I suppose it is a bit
of dream to be involved in something like this. But Sean Langman (Sydney)
is bankrolling the entire project as a personal goal, so I am just
a co-pilot with some foiling experience and a good body weight for
the attempt. I can’t
tell you much more that that at this stage, but maybe later…
Is there sail racing life after or along
the side of the moth?
RV
There is no need to stop sailing Moth’s. I sold one of my
old foilers to a 63 year British sailor who is still sailing
it today. Personally I will find it hard to sail another dinghy and
enjoy it as much. I have an A class cat as well, but they are slower,
more expensive, bigger in all dimensions and difficult to transport.
The big benefit of the A class is the great fleet racing all over the
world, but I am hoping to create the same fleet racing with the foiler
Moth. I don’t
think my wife will allow me to do any Olympic campaigns
or Volvo 70 racing, but I would certainly like to if I
had the opportunity.
What are you going to foil next? Is there an obvious boat
that you know you can make fly if you put your mind to it? Are
foiling canting keel monohulls possible?
RV
I’ll stick to moth’s for now, that was enough work.
I’ll let someone else tackle that one.
Are you involved with the group that’s promoting and building
the Bladerider moth? Is there a genuine desire to see the Moth
adopted as an Olympic boat (along with the two-tier fleet
that creates), or is it just a way of getting more publicity for the
Moth class and/or BladeRider? What do the Moth fleet as a whole
think about putting the boat forward as an Olympic class?
RV
this
is going to be a long one and I think needs to be answered
in a separate response later on…
Was
the pain in your knee pissing you off while sailing at
the worlds?
RV
Of course. I wish it never happened as it completely
stuffed my preparation up, but I suppose I can’t complain finishing only
3 points behind the winner, Simon Payne. Even so, Simon
sailed a flawless regatta, so he would have been hard to beat anyway.
As long as we had enough wind to hike, I was okay, but as soon as the
wind dropped off or I had to tack or gybe, I had to bend the knee and
the swelling made life difficult, but it didn’t hurt that much.
Most of the pain/infection had gone by the time I finally got to Denmark.
There is still some swelling in there which will probably never go
away unless I have surgery. I’ll worry about that later.
Has Dr. Laura's declaration that "foiling is unnatural, so
all moth sailors must be gay" had any negative impact on the class?
RV
J I have never heard of Dr Laura or the comment
made, but what she said is pretty funny. I think anyone in the class
would laugh at it just the same. To be honest, we don’t care what anyone
thinks or says about us, which is why you don’t see us in the
web forums trying to persuade the world to convert. The
way we see it, those that have not tried it yet are missing
out on one of the best sailing experiences they will ever have. They
probably just say things like that because they are scared to try or
like something new. I have seen it all too many times before, but once
they have a go, they are hooked!
Thanks!
RV
No worries. Anything for you guys!
(Sorry for writing so much, but it has been a long trip
home from Denmark +40 hours.)
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